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Why Pray for the Lord’s Presence?
Have you ever been involved in corporate prayer in your local fellowship and heard prayers that were – how should I say it – unnecessary?
For example, why have I heard so many plead to the Lord repeatedly for His presence as if He is not, in fact, present among them? We’re not talking about the Second Advent here, we’re talking about prayers requesting His presence prior to that.
Listen, a true Christian lives in the presence of the Lord at all times, every day. Look at Matthew 28:20:
teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
Now, this is not a promise of the Lord. It is a fact to be believed. The pronoun “I” in the verb (used only when emphatic) declares to every true believer of every age that the Lord Christ Himself is present with us 24/7, 365 days of the year – no exceptions.
So…why do Christians pray for His presence, or sometimes for the Holy Spirit to ‘come down’ among them? Why the unnecessary pleading for the presence of the Lord?
“We need your presence Lord, please visit us this morning!”
Stop it – If you are truly a believer, He said that He was present with you and the Lord was emphatic. If you believed His Word, you would know for certain that He is present and give thanks for it.
“O God! We are desperate for your presence, we need you, we are empty and vile apart from your being with us!”
Yes, indeed, if He is not present with you, you are lost and without salvation as Romans 8:9 specifically says:
Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Listen brethren, if you must repeatedly ask for the presence of the Spirit, there are only so many options here:
- According to Romans 8:9, if you need to ask for the Spirit’s presence or indwelling, you are lost altogether and without salvation.
Or, as in many cases….
- You have been manipulated by those who seek ‘a revival’, or most likely within new Calvinist churches, a ‘second Pentecost’ – as if that were possible – and you bought into their message without checking the declarations of God’s written Word. This is especially true if you have been taught that Christians are ‘totally depraved’ and ‘vile creatures’. No, you’re not, if you are saved. You are a new creature in Christ, and you are a saint – regardless of how you feel.
If that is the case, please stop that as well.
I know by my own experience – I’ve witnessed it first-hand – that many leading evangelist-preachers (so-called) are under the delusion that the mantle of ‘recovering the Gospel’ has been handed down to them for a modern-day revival of reformation doctrine.
News flash: It was never lost in the first place.
There was no demon that escaped God’s notice. There was no truth of God that got ripped off and taken from the church while you were busy with sin. Come on. The facts are in the written Word of God. Everything else is spewed, foamy deception from Hell.
And the manipulative teaching and encouragement of this type of prayer – which is a flat denial of written fact – is encouraged in new Calvinist churches.
Bottom line is that if you are in a fellowship that encourages this type of prayer and thinking, you need to do at least two things:
- Approach your pastor (most likely an ‘elder’ – and I use that term incredibly loosely), and ask him point blank if this is a valid, biblical prayer. If he says it is, run, as fast and as far as you can. He is either deceived or intentionally deceiving. Either way, grab your family and run. Stick to the written Word and what it says.
- If he says it is not, ask quite frankly why such prayers are allowed to continue and influence young minds and hearts being molded by this nonsense.
Where this type of corporate prayer is encouraged or allowed, or other non-biblical doctrines like ‘Gospel sanctification’ or ‘repenting of good works’ is espoused, there are those in leadership who should not be, and that is not, of course, in your best spiritual interest.
Brethren, we walk through life by faith, not by sight, and that includes charismatic experiences. 2 Corinthians 5:7.
5 Pt. Salt 
Amen! I have Episcopal friends who pray, “We know that whenever two or more are gathered, you are in their midst. We are five here, so you pray you will be with us.” or some such none sense, paying no attention to the Scripture they rip out of context nor any other Scripture.
‘Tis sad.
I think the heart of the prayer is to heighten our perception of His presence, rather than the prayer being a theological argument for the ability for us to be in and out of the presence of God.
Also, if we are in the presence of the Lord in the same way at all times, how do you interpret James 4:8? “Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.” Do you interpret this passage as directed to unbelievers? Not sure that is the correct interpretation, given the context.
Our ‘perception’ or our ‘experience’?
Well, I would imagine the more we perceive God’s presence, the more our affections would be captured by that perception, which could be translated into an “experience”.
The heart of prayer is to conform us to Christ. “Drawing near to God” is one thing prayer does for us. That’s not the same thing as being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, which is true at times for the Christian. As He works in us, we draw near to Him or we rebel and pull away. But we do not empty ourselves of Him and then re-fill.
Exactly…we do not ‘re-fill’ nor are we ‘reborn again and again, a la Piper and Tchividjian….a la New Calvinism
Agree with all of this. But should we assume that when church leaders pray for the presence of God, they are implying the Holy Spirit can leave us as believers, and then refill us? I’m not sure I would jump to that conclusion.
I’m all for theological precision, both in our systematics and in our language. If we can get more precise in how we ask for God to draw near to us, then we should do that. But maybe that’s precisely what most people are asking for when they pray for God’s presence–God to draw near to us in our perception of his glory and closeness.
Blessings,
Justin
Justin – if a preacher is standing before God’s people, as in the local church, he has NO biblical warrant to “pray for the presence of God”. He is sloppy at best, heretical at worst.
Is it possible, Manfred, that praying for the “presence of God” could be synonymous with praying for God to “draw near”? (James 4:8.) Or is it not possible for it to be synonymous?
Justin – words have meaning. God revealed Himself to us in words, we should be careful in our use of words to portray Him correctly – biblically. The Bible teaches we HAVE the presence of God upon being born again and made alive in Christ. So to ask for something that is already true, as if it were not, is wrong.
Manfred,
I sympathize with your point (mainly, using proper language). But how does the Bible instruct us in this issue? For example, would this be a “sloppy” or “heretical” prayer for a pastor to pray:
Serve the LORD with gladness!
Come into his presence with singing!
(Psalm 100:2 ESV)
Using your rationale, if we are already in the presence of the Lord, then this Psalm is off the table as one that a pastor can legitimately pray…there is no “coming into his presence”.
Or what about this one:
Seek the LORD and his strength;
seek his presence continually!
(Psalm 105:4 ESV)
Is this something a pastor could admonish his congregation to do? How could you “seek” something (in this case, God’ presence) you already have?
Or this:
You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
(Psalm 16:11 ESV)
If we are always in God’s presence in the same way at all times, then why are we not always filled with joy? Would it be incorrect to pray for God to bring us in to His presence, in order to fill us with joy? If not, then why do the Psalms constantly exhort us to come into his presence, if it’s somewhere we already are? Is the Psalmist being sloppy at best, or heretical at worst?
Or this one:
Cast me not away from your presence,
and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
(Psalm 51:11 ESV)
If a minister is going before the Lord in a prayer of confession, is this Psalm off the table for him to pray on behalf of his congregation? Since Scripture presents the perseverance of the saints as a true and biblical doctrine, why would a minister, or David for that matter, need to pray and ask God not to cast him out of the presence of God? Is this sloppy at best, or heretical at worst?
Blessings,
Justin
Justin, Bear in mind the context and audience, etc. of the Psalms. The ancient saints in ancient Israel were used to the physical presence of God, as with the pillars of smoke and fire in the desert. God was present with the few chosen Jews (such as David) in a way He is not today, though He is present with us in a way He was not then. We cannot legitimately put ourselves in the place of those Jews who sang those Psalms. While we can identify with the condition of David, as portrayed in the Psalm, we cannot stand in his place in the context in which he wrote that. The preacher must be careful how he appropriates Scripture for his hearers.
Fair points, and I agree we have to be discerning in how we apply the Psalms.
Above, you said this:
“But we do not empty ourselves of Him and then re-fill.”
I agree we do not empty of ourselves of him and then re-fill; but, at least on the surface, wouldn’t that make Paul’s exhortation of the Ephesians seem a bit sloppy:
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
(Ephesians 5:18 ESV)
How could Paul exhort the Ephesians to be “filled with the Spirit” if they are already filled with the Spirit? Wouldn’t that be the same as exhorting someone to dwell in the presence of God, when they’re already in the presence of God?
Is it possible that God’s presence can manifest itself in more obvious ways, even today? Is it possible God could “pour out His Spirit” on a congregation in response to the prayer for His manifest presence?
If God’s presence is with us in the same way all the time, then does that mean the Christian is now responsible for growing in affection for God? Or, is it possible, that God can intensify his presence in the life of the believer, thus capturing his affections more?
Justin
“Be ye filled with the Spirit” per Eph 5:18 does not presuppose one is empty. It does recognize that one can rebel against God, grieving the Holy Spirit, causing His power in us to be minimized. “Be ye filled”, therefore, means to “humble yourself before the mighty hand of God and He will lift you up.” Submit yourself to God. The closeness of the relationship is not the same thing as the relationship. This is what I think you are having trouble recognizing. A son is always a son, even when he and his father are at odds with one another.
“‘Be ye filled with the Spirit’ per Eph 5:18 does not presuppose one is empty.”
Couldn’t a minister say the same thing about praying for God’s presence, namely, that it doesn’t presuppose He is absent?
“It does recognize that one can rebel against God, grieving the Holy Spirit, causing His power in us to be minimized.”
Why does asking for a “filling” of the Spirit get a pass, but asking for His “presence” does not? The two can be placed in the same theological category; neither necessarily imply the opposite, namely, emptiness and absence. Therefore, the more his presence is manifested in our lives (or the more He fills us) the more His power is maximized.
“The closeness of the relationship is not the same thing as the relationship. This is what I think you are having trouble recognizing. A son is always a son, even when he and his father are at odds with one another.”
Again, praying for God’s presence doesn’t necessarily imply a lack of sonship. It can simply imply having a closer relationship (as you put it).
Regards,
Justin